CWJJ Episode 53: Chris Isaacson
April 15, 2021
CWJJ Episode 55: UPSCO, Connections for Life
April 30, 2021

CWJJ Episode 54: Jim Schauer & James Cross

Thursday, April 22- Jim and James discuss 7 Habits of Highly Effective People and how easy it is to apply these skills in your everyday interactions.

Quick Links:

Jim Schauer LinkedIn

James Cross LinkedIn

Episode Transcript

Jim Schauer:  [0:24] Good morning, everyone. Welcome to this week’s edition of “Coffee with Jim & James.”

[0:29] James, two things I want to go into. But the first, I don’t know if you noticed anything different about myself?

[0:36] Kinda ties into this week’s episode, I think, as when I was picking out glasses, I was very intrigued by how much the person was asking me how I was going to use glasses. As opposed to just getting a pair off the shelf and saying these will be perfect for you.

[0:55] I’m being, I’m being serious, though. They were really diligent with the asking the questions, you know, driving, you know, do you read in bed, do you read at a computer? Do you blah, blah, blah, blah, all those things. I thought it was really good.

[1:08] And afterwards, I was fully satisfied with that. You know, they really dived into my mindset and my, what I was going to use them, and then before making a recommendation.

[1:20] So I wanted to add that. No whacky story today, but I do have to ask a question. Is that James over there? Or is that your younger brother? I mean, what is going on? Did, did, did you have a fight with a lawn mower or a razor?

[0:00] :

James Cross:  [1:34] Obviously, I didn’t begin with the end in mind, you know? Because if so, [laughs] yeah.

[1:41] It was one of those moments, Jimmy, last week. I was like, you know, I just had it with the beard a little bit, you know, sometimes I do. I just, I don’t know. I don’t know how to explain it.

[1:51] And honestly, I looked at a picture of myself from four years ago. And I was like, how did I age 40 years in 4 years? And so I was like I’m going to shave it off. So I shaved it off. I shaved it a little too short.

[2:06] This is actually on the comeback trail, you know, but some of the group got to see the 12‑year‑old version of James, and it’s a little bit different.

[0:00] :

Jim:  [2:16] I like you with the beard, brother. I like you with the beard.

[0:00] :

James:  [2:19] There’s probably a happy medium somewhere. I think that the, the last, you know, year, I’ve definitely been pan‑, pandemic mode with the facial hair. As we start to work our way back into to the office, I can’t. You know, I’ve got to try to get my life together. [2:34] Somebody said, dude, you’re totally off brand now. You know, my own brand, who like, you know, my, my little cartoon even has a little beard. And so I bet it’ll come back.

[0:00] :

Jim:  [2:48] It’ll come back.

[0:00] :

James:  [2:49] It’ll come back. I bet it grows back. My, my daughter keeps putting her arm around me occasionally, and she’ll say it’s OK, Dad. It’ll grow back.

[[2:56] laughter]

[0:00] :

James:  [2:57] So I know very well that I made mistakes. But Jimmy, it’s, that’s a great analogy you used. But even better, you mean you don’t walk into the eye doctor and they just hand you a pair of glasses off the shelf and say here you go, have a good day?

[0:00] :

Jim:  [3:13] No, because I would not be happy with that. I would be, like, feeling left out. I would be feeling…

[0:00] :

James:  [3:18] Exactly. Well, you probably couldn’t see either because, you know. One of my favorite lines in this book, I don’t know what page it is and there’s so many versions now. But one thing that it says in this chapter is very simple, diagnose before you prescribe, right? So…

[0:00] :

Jim:  [3:34] Perfect.

[0:00] :

James:  [3:36] …you, you hit it even more detailed, right? Because if you’re going into the eye doctor, obviously you’re probably getting your eyes checked, right? That’s a given.

[0:00] :

Jim:  [3:42] Yep.

[0:00] :

James:  [3:43] You would hope they would give you the right prescription. So then it’s more important on how you intend to use it. Do you need bifocals, trifocals? Do you need sunglasses? Do you need, you know, eye, you need ones with a little band to hang around your neck, Jimmy?

[3:58] You know, whatever it might be, we, we first need to know that before we can move forward, right? So I think that, that personifies it very well, diagnose before you prescribe. That’s pretty powerful.

[4:11] Just to onboard those that maybe this is their first experience with 7, “7 Habits,” maybe it’s the first time you’re watching one of our videos on it. Or maybe you’ve picked up the book and you stumbled upon us.

[4:23] But remember we, we went through the public victory. That’s the first three habits. You’ve got to get your mind right. You know, you got to get yourself right. You got to, first things first, be proactive, those types of things.

[4:35] And then, if you remember, we move into the public victory. And the public victory is where it gets a little bit trickier, right?

[0:00] :

Jim:  [4:43] Yep, yep.

[0:00] :

James:  [4:44] Because now we’re, we’re moving from an independence model really to an interdependence model. So now I got to start doing these things with Jim, which is a problem. Or maybe I have to, you know, I have to take this to my team or my team of teams.

[5:00] And so it gets tricky. And it gets tricky because those variables that we’ve talked about in some of the other chapters.

[5:07] Now, we have a joke, you know, people are messy. We are, and not in a bad way. I’m not saying everybody’s in jail or everybody’s one thing or the other. I’m saying we have a lot of baggage, emotional baggage, things that we grew up with, paradigms that shape us.

[5:22] And when you start intermingling 1, 2, 3, 10, 50, 300 people, it’s exponential how messy it gets, right? And then the last thing I want to kind of bring up before we jump into this is a very valid point, I think, that this past year I’ve realized more and more.

[5:43] And that is, if you’re watching today, thank you, number one. You could be doing…

[0:00] :

Jim:  [5:50] Hit the like button, hit the Subscribe, right?

[0:00] :

James:  [5:53] I don’t know, right, share, I don’t know what my son says on YouTube. But I think it’s important to keep in mind, I’ve mentioned this a lot. Internal, all the internal people are shaking their heads, like, we get it. Quit saying it to me.

[6:06] But, that if you’ve watched this one even to its entirety or one of the other ones or you’ve been blessed enough to pick up the book and read it yourself, that you’re more skilled than quite a few people in this topic already, just by doing that.

[[6:24] crosstalk]

[0:00] :

Jim:  [6:25] …90 percent of the people?

[0:00] :

James:  [6:27] I mean, there’s a lot of people in this world, right?

[0:00] :

Jim:  [6:29] Right.

[0:00] :

James:  [6:29] And I don’t know how many people who, it says right here in this book, which is older, over 25 million sold. So, you know, you do your odds on that, but there is a big percentage out that, that I’m going to say is unskilled in this topic, OK?

[0:00] :

Jim:  [6:45] Right.

[0:00] :

James:  [6:46] So the odds are against you as you walk out the door with these new skills because your brain’s going, Oh, this is great. You know, I can fix everything with this information.

[6:55] But as you start that public victory and get out there with other people, you realize that you’re the only one that knows this information a lot of the times.

[7:04] And so that’s where you have to lean on the emotional intelligence and the soft skills, the patience, you know, the grace to give people to process it. And then go back and try to figure out how to better get them where they need to be, right?

[7:18] And that, man, could that personify what we’re talking about any more? I mean, that is what we’re talking about. To get there, you’re going to have to first seek to understand, then to be understood.

[0:00] :

Jim:  [7:29] Yep, yep. And that…

[0:00] :

James:  [7:32] Jimmy, I was just going to mention one thing. Also, this is my favorite chapter in book because it’s like the tiniest chapter in the book.

[0:00] :

Jim:  [7:38] I know. Yeah.

[0:00] : [

James:  [7:38] laughs] It’s a really short one. So this may be our shortest episode ever. It may not. Who knows? But if it is, that’s why. I mean, there, there’s not a lot of ground to cover on this one, so just a disclaimer.

[0:00] :

Jim:  [7:51] Yeah. Well, you know, I, I was going to mention that because it is a very short one. But it was very intriguing. And I tell you, when you go through the 7 Habits, you pick up things and use them in the weirdest places, you know?

[8:07] And I like that because you’re kind of dabbling and exploring and getting more and more comfortable with it. But in this chapter it’s really, you know, the two main parts, right, as in the title. Seek First to Understand is the first part.

[0:00] :

James:  [8:21] Right.

[0:00] :

Jim:  [8:21] I think we should dive into that. Because, you know, when you look at the chapter, it’s, you know, there’s a lots of things down the stream, but those are the two main…

[[8:29] crosstalk]

[0:00] :

James:  [8:30] Yeah, I think that’s a good point. I mean, it really is. That comma breaks it into two parts for us pretty easily. Seek first to understand is the get‑go, right?

[8:39] So whatever the circumstance or problem or opportunity, the challenge, whatever you’re dealing with, first we’ve got to understand it.

[8:47] And so Jimmy, I’m going to turn it right back to you, the questioning, because this is one thing I think you do really well, one of many, but this is one of them in particular.

[9:00] So I’ll challenge you with that. You know, what does seeking first to understand look like to Jim Schauer?

[0:00] :

Jim:  [9:08] It really means, to me, is doing something that at times can be hard for me, though, believe it or not.

[0:00] :

James:  [9:14] I already know where you’re going, yeah.

[0:00] :

Jim:  [9:15] You know, I like to talk, and I like to share things. But in this case, it is being quiet and/or asking some questions and then listening. You know, not just hearing words, but actually listening, digesting it, understanding what a person’s thought process is behind what they’re saying.

[0:00] :

James:  [9:37] Right. Yeah. I think that’s important. You know, I think that it’s a skill we don’t talk about enough, and that’s shutting up.

[0:00] :

Jim:  [9:44] Yeah.

[0:00] :

James:  [9:45] And I’m the worst. You know, I’m, I’m more vocal in those moments really because I’m getting older and I don’t want to forget. [laughs]

[9:56] But you know, I’ll interrupt people. And I’m the worst, man. I know it. I’ve self‑diagnosed myself with ADH, adult ADHD on TikTok one day.

[0:00] :

Jim:  [10:06] Right.

[0:00] :

James:  [10:06] And [laughs] interrupting is one of them. But you know, it can start down a bad path. A lot of people say, you know, we talk, we teach active listening and soft skills. They say the big difference is, you know, waiting to respond instead of to understand, right?

[10:24] So you’re just waiting to talk. I mean, how many people you talk to, you know they haven’t heard a word. They’ve just been waiting for you to stop so they can, you know, get in their point.

[10:34] And this one really shakes and breaks that model a little bit, you know? And Jim, what I was going to bring up with you that you do really well is you, you shut up and listen. And I think that’s key. That’s step one.

[10:47] And then, then your mind gets going. And it’s like a flywheel, right? I mean, once that flywheel gets in motion and starts turning, that 1 or 2, 3 questions churns into 40 or 50 in a heartbeat.

[11:02] And so that moment is, you know, do you bombard them with those 10,000 questions right there? Is it more, is it better to piecemeal it in? Is it better to, you know, give a couple of them and then go back and really think about it. Am I asking the right questions? Am I, you know, am I going about this the right way? Am I?

[11:21] Go back on your other habits, being proactive and all those steps that build up. They’re all stackable. You know, we got to use them to get through these as well. Then coming back with that diatribe of questions, right, that you go back and say.

[11:36] And level‑setting with who you’re working with to say, OK, this is the seek first to understand for me, right?

[0:00] :

Jim:  [11:43] Yeah.

[0:00] :

James:  [11:43] This is why we do this, so we have a common language, right? We talked about it all the time internally. That is common language in Energy Worldnet.

[0:00] :

Jim:  [11:51] Yes.

[0:00] :

James:  [11:51] You hear it all the time. Somebody will pause you and say seek first to understand.

[0:00] :

Jim:  [11:57] Yeah.

[0:00] :

James:  [11:58] You’re right. I was just solution providing, right? I’m just rattling. Oh, man, I’ve been here. Here’s how you fix it mode, right?

[0:00] :

Jim:  [12:06] Yeah. Yeah.

[0:00] :

James:  [12:06] Talk around in circles and dancing around. So I always liked how you’ve done that.

[0:00] :

Jim:  [12:14] Well, thank you. I appreciate it. I think it’s, I, it’s sometimes I realize and sometimes I don’t. But I think that my questions are a lot more, I get a lot more results for myself if I do take the time.

[12:28] If we’re having a conversation and I understand where your mindset is, formulate my questions in my head, knowing what you’re thinking about, James. And then asking one, two, three, four questions, I get so much more as opposed to the bombardment and the random scatter shots and the shotgun, you know, approach.

[0:00] :

James:  [12:47] Yeah, and you know, it’s probably situational a little bit on who you’re working with. I mean, that’s part of soft skills and situational awareness, right? It’s just, you know, if someone else isn’t as skilled as you in these habits, obviously that impacts it.

[13:02] Emotion, holy cow, right?

[0:00] :

Jim:  [13:05] Yep.

[0:00] :

James:  [13:05] If we get into an argument about something, how often do you see seek first to understand go out the window, right, when you’re, when you’re not aligned.

[0:00] :

Jim:  [13:16] Yeah, well, ready for this? And I’ll throw in that I see it differently, and that gives me a few seconds to take a step back and let them think about that. That it’s not that we’re have an argument, per se. We are seeing things differently.

[13:30] Let’s take that down a little bit, and maybe it’s a chance for me to ask a few more questions so I can understand them. Even if they’re not in the 7 Habits world yet, maybe they can understand, like if I ask him a few questions, they might ask a few back to me saying, OK, wait a minute.  I don’t understand what Jimmy’s talking about.

[0:00] :

James:  [13:45] Right. Because, really, it sounds weird to put it on both sides, but they kind of have to seek first to understand what you’re trying to understand, right?

[0:00] :

Jim:  [13:55] Right.

[0:00] :

James:  [13:55] Because when you may be totally dislocated out of this, and this may be your first experience, right? So you’ve got to catch up. So they may not even know that you’re trying to catch up. They may think you’re already there, right?

[14:08] So again, it’s weird to say it works from both sides, but it is. Again, when you’re skilled or unskilled you’ve got to navigate those situations.

[14:16] Then, to go back to your 10,000 question. The 10,000 question kind of mindset is it also, I don’t think, has to happen all in one exchange. Like these aren’t checkboxes that we’re checking.

[14:31] If this ends up that the best way you process is you go back and really sit down with yourself and you want to be sure you’re asking the right question.

[14:41] You know, you’ve asked a few while you were in the moment, but then you’re like, you know what? I need to go process this. I need to see what the end looks like from, you know, to begin with. To follow my other habits, I need that.

[14:52] So if I take that back and I start processing it and then send back some more questions or things like that, then that, it can be a longer exposure. Sometimes you’re blessed to have that luxury. And I think that’s important, too.

[15:07] Everything doesn’t have to be settled majority of the time in that moment.

[0:00] :

Jim:  [15:12] Well, sometimes we think that in our heads because we’re looking at a calendar and we’re looking at scheduling and the whole bit. And I think it is important to take a step back.

[15:22] And I think, you know, let’s dive into the second port, part, to be understood. Very important that, you know, to be understood.

[15:34] I think, again, if you understand, like we were just talking about, seek first to understand, so you can understand how you’re going to share your thoughts or what you want to accomplish, right? And that’s and art form.

[0:00] :

James:  [15:48] That’s the communication part. Yeah, it is an art form. And some people, you know, are just blessed with it. You know, that’s how they were raised. They just, you know, without it being labeled this way, you know, their grandpa told them, you know, you shut up and listen. And then, you know, think before you speak and those type.

[16:07] Now we see those as habits and soft skills and stuff. But you know, 50, 60 years ago, 40 years ago, that wasn’t, there wasn’t a name for it, right?

[16:17] So it goes back to circle of influence and circle of control when we get to it. And I’m going to read a chunk out of the book. I don’t know which book you have, so I’m not going to bore you with a page number. But this, this habit is so short it won’t be hard to find.

[16:33] But when you get to the one‑on‑one section, which is really a lot of times what you’re doing, right, like in that moment. Now OK, now how do I get my point across?

[16:42] So I’m going to read a chunk out of it. And again, this is a book, 7 Habits, Stephen Covey. I’m going to read this whole chunk.

[16:50] “Habit 5 is powerful because it’s right in the middle of the Circle of Influence. Many factors and interdependent situations are in your circle of concern, problems, disagreements, circumstances, and other people’s behavior.

[17:05] “And if you focus your energies out there, you deplete them with little positive results. “But,” and this is the golder right here. “But you can always seek first to understand. That’s something that’s within your control.

[17:20] “And as you do that, as you focus on your circle of influence, you really deeply understand other people. You have accurate information to work with, and you get to the heart of matters quickly.

[17:33] “You build emotional bank accounts. And you give people the psychological air they need so that you can work together effectively.” Man, sign me up, right?

[0:00] :

Jim:  [17:47] Yeah.

[0:00] :

James:  [17:47] I love circle and control. And, I mean, circle of concern and circle of influence part. I forget which habits. I mean, you can see it, right?

[0:00] :

Jim:  [17:55] Yeah. Yeah. In my mind, I see the circle of influence like, you know, Covey says, you want to grow that, shrink down the concern, focus on what you can have, you know, input and positive effect on. At least that’s what I tell myself.

[18:11] And we do it in all parts of our life, James. That’s the beautiful part.

[0:00] :

James:  [18:15] And I think in, yeah, in our world right now and social media‑heavy world, right? I mean, in this new, we’ve had them forever, however you want to label them. But now with social media, it seems more prevalent.

[18:29] But you hear the word influencers, right? We’ve heard that term. So you’ve got people that, you know, are getting paid to put information out there, you know, whether it’s right or wrong.

[18:42] It’s, it’s funny to think, influence, really, if you want to influence some business, listen.

[0:00] :

Jim:  [18:52] Yeah.

[0:00] :

James:  [18:53] Because that’s really what it is. You think now in social media that because there are very vocal people in front of, you know, millions of people, that that’s how you get things across.

[19:03] But in business, influence is about listening in that first part. And then taking that and then, you know, enacting results from that. And I think that’s really, that’s some kind of, an inside out approach, right, if you will. I think Covey says that in the book.

[0:00] :

Jim:  [19:19] Yeah.

[0:00] :

James:  [19:19] It’s really interesting to think about. Social media really dumped us all on our heads. It made us rethink all these. But when you go back to it, I mean, again, these are habits, right?

[0:00] :

Jim:  [19:31] Yeah. Yeah, and you could use them day in and day out. And speaking of social media, I mean, the next thing you know, like, two energy guys are going to be on doing one of these little, what do you call these things?

[0:00] :

James:  [19:41] You give somebody a microphone, they’ll do anything, right?

[0:00] :

Jim:  [19:44] That’s it. [laughs] I will. Absolutely, absolutely.

[0:00] :

James:  [19:49] No doubt.

[0:00] :

Jim:  [19:49] James, as we wrap this up, any, any closing thoughts? Anything you want to, anything you want to make sure we hit on before we wrap this up?

[0:00] :

James:  [19:58] Yeah, I want to bring up one thing. And then I’m going to finish it, actually, by reading the last paragraph in this chapter because it’s powerful. And to me, it wraps it all up so well.

[20:09] But again, I want to bring up the fact that we brought up earlier, which was don’t be scared if you step in it while you’re out there trying to use these habits.

[20:19] Because again, you’re the skilled one.

[0:00] :

Jim:  [20:23] Yeah.

[0:00] :

James:  [20:23] And more than likely, you’re, you’re, you know, at a deficit out there. And it’s not your job to bring all the people along in the world. [laughs] But it is your job to use these habits with yourself.

[20:38] And if you don’t have them all, you know, please pick up the book, read it, do all the things you can to build on those habits. And part of what you’ll learn is how to use it when other people don’t, you know?

[0:00] :

Jim:  [20:49] Yep.

[0:00] :

James:  [20:49] And that’s a big part to remember. Don’t get defeated out there because it’s the odds are stacked against you every day. But when you find someone who does have the skill, how refreshing, right?

[21:03] I mean, that’s why we love what we do at Energy Worldnet so much is because we’re surrounded by so many people that get it and that have this core of these, these habits. And we’re instilling it in others, and we’re helping people come along. And it creates that common language. And it’s unbeatable, unbeatable.

[0:00] :

Jim:  [21:21] Yeah.

[0:00] :

James:  [21:21] But Jimmy, I’m going to finish really with the last paragraph in this chapter. So it reads, Stephen says, “When we really deeply understand each other, we open the door to creative solutions and third alternatives.”

[21:41] Think about that, like go back to your win‑win, right? And we’re looking for that third altern‑, alternative at times. “Our differences are no longer stumbling blocks to communication and progress. Instead, they become the stepping stones to synergy.”

[21:58] And my guess is, Jimmy, we will go over synergy in our next one.

[0:00] :

Jim:  [22:02] You think so?

[0:00] :

James:  [22:04] That’s just my guess.

[0:00] :

Jim:  [22:05] OK.

[0:00] :

James:  [22:07] That’s it, man. I don’t think anything wraps it up better. I mean, once you learn this one and you can use it to your advantage, it just motivates you to learn the next one.

[0:00] :

Jim:  [22:17] I agree. And again, I’ll say one last time, take the baby steps, try them. It may not be perfect at first, but try it, you know? Not everybody gets it day one. You have to practice that. And it gets better and better and easier to use.

[0:00] :

James:  [22:31] And then your mind opens up to opportunities to use it more and more, right?

[0:00] :

Jim:  [22:34] Absolutely.

[0:00] :

James:  [22:34] And hey, guess what? You have two accountability partners right here in Jimmy and myself that I am happy any time. If you want to run by anything, you know, through somebody else. I am by no means an expert. But I have a great group of people that are…

[0:00] :

Jim:  [22:50] Absolutely.

[0:00] :

James:  [22:51] …and happy, happy to do that. We all need accountability partners.

[0:00] :

Jim:  [22:55] Oh, absolutely we do. Thank you. James, thank you again for…

[0:00] :

James:  [22:58] You too, Jimmy.

[0:00] : …

Jim:  [22:59] sharing your wisdom and your passion for the 7 habits. You know, you’ve helped me on my journey with it. And I know you’re helping a lot of our audience members, too. So…

[0:00] :

James:  [23:08] We hope so.

[0:00] :

Jim:  [23:09] …I think, absolutely, thank you.

[23:11] On behalf of James and I, thank you, everybody, for tuning in to this week’s Coffee with Jim & James. We hope you enjoyed it. We hope you learned one little nugget that will inspire you to do things maybe just a little bit differently and a little bit betterly, and, betterly, is that a, is that a…

[0:00] :

James:  [23:27] I don’t know. Education’s going to get you on that one.

[0:00] :

Jim:  [23:29] I think they are, but to do it better, be better.

[0:00] :

James:  [23:31] Be better.

[0:00] :

Jim:  [23:32] So until next week on Coffee with Jim & James, have a great week and stay safe. Take care, everybody.

[0:00] :

James:  [23:38] Bye‑bye.

[0:00] :

Jim:  [23:38] Bye.

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